Week One- Interview
with Jeanne
In our first week in Radio 4, our lecturer Jeanne DuToit interview the Radio class to find out a bit more about who we are, where we come from and our ideas revolving Journalism. Below is the transcript of this interview. Enjoy :)
00:00 (Jeanne) If I press play, it should start
recording…
00:01 (Nadia) Ya…
00:01 (Jeanne) It should start recording… ok we’ve got a recording. Ok
um, it is now, twenty past two on uh… February the 14th and I’m
interviewing Nadia Moore. Um, Nadia, let me just start, I…haven’t actually
looked at this interview schedule for a while… so the first thing I want to
talk to you about is about growing up, um and the impact that it’s made on your
decision to become involved in journalism. Um, so… when you were a child, what
can you tell me about the kid of journalism you were primarily exposed to? Um,
ya…
00:40 (Nadia) Um, well I, I lived with my grandparents for quite a lot
of my life, um, so they were, they quite enjoyed the news, the seven o’clock
news every night and um, we always had the radio on in the house and my grampa
would buy two weekly newspapers, or no, two daily newspapers and one weekly
every Sunday. So there was quite a bit of journalism in the house and news was
quite a common feature, so we’d sit down at 7 o’clock and watch the news.
Either e-tv or SABC.
01:11 (Jeanne) So, it was primarily newspaper journalism and
television journalism was it?
01:15 (Nadia) Um, ya but then the radio as well was always on. On the
way to school we’d listen to the news, on the way back we’d listen to news, or
generally those times. Um, and during, throughout the day, so ya.
01:24 (Jeanne) Was it primarily journalism and news that interested
you about the media, or were there other things that you were also, listening
to, or watching or reading…?
01:33 (Nadia) Um, I think just the media in general. I quite enjoyed,
um just TV um reading… my grampa really got me into reading so I would read
that little kid’s section in the newspaper with him, radio I’d listen to the
shows… but the news was quite a common feature, we’d discuss it and talk about
it and get quite shocked and amazed so ya.
01:52 (Jeanne) So this is something you did as a family is talk about
the news…
01:54 (Nadia) Mmm..ya, and um, especially in my community because it’s
a, it’s you know, not as um elite as other communities and you’d be very
surprised at how aware people are and they constantly discuss and are like, oh
did you hear about you know, Jacob Zuma or the, people are very involved.
02:10 (Jeanne) Where is this?
02:11 (Nadia) Um, it’s in Eshowe, Zululand. Um, it’s a small town and
you know, what, and um, my one friend had come down and he said that um, we’re
still quite divided in terms of, from Apartheid. You can see, you can actually
see the differences in the coloured, indian, white and black communities. You
know like the bridge separates the coloured community and there is a certain
highway that separates the indian community. But um… slowly slowly we’re
integrating. But it’s still, you know, we’re very involved though, people you
know in terms of news and what’s going on.
02:41 (Jeanne) So when you, you talk about these different
communities, which of those communities were you part of?
02:45 (Nadia) Um, well it, because of the school I went to, my
grandparents um, put me, it was, um, I’m Catholic so, I went to the Convent
school and integrated with everyone. So, it was I knew, I knew everyone, I had
friends, we were going to their farms, and they would come to my house in
Sunnydale so it was really nice. There was a mixture and we grew up just like,
ah what ever, you know. They, my grandparents were very shocked about that
though, because, you know having, bringing home a black and a white friend, was
like oh wow, hi (laughs) so ya, but, I was sort of everywhere.
03:14 (Jeanne) And, and, with which of those people you mixed with did
you primarily speak to, uh, uh, you were talking about talking about, Zuma and
politics and things like that, who did you speak to about politics?
03:25 (Nadia) Um, my grampa. Quite a bit and he, he is, will still say
to me now, when I go home, ah, I don’t see you reading the newspaper, what kind
of journalist are you. Um, but he is generally the politics person um, but then
you know, teachers, and uh my mom some while she’s cooking you know she’ll be
talking about and “oh did you hear that” and ya…
03:42 (Jeanne) Ok, And um, how would you say that shaped your
understanding of journalism, the kind of conversations you had with your
family? And I suppose just living in a small town, and seeing the things you
saw round you?
03:52 (Nadia) Um, I think that it didn’t um, I was quite aware,
because I came to University and you know you meet some people here who never,
didn’t really have those conversations, they seem to be quite isolated,
whereas… and you’d think that uh, being in sort of my community we’d not know
as much as other people but, there’s you know, I found that I was much more
aware and willing to take in and learn and not be totally turned off to what is
going on in the world and South Africa and just anywhere and ya….
04:20 (Jeanne) So, it’s, it’s not just about journalism, in fact, it’s
about social awareness and being switched on and caring about what happens
around you?
04:26 (Nadia) Ya, and I think that plays a big, uh, a big role
especially in like, in like how I like to practice my journalism, like I
prefer, you know in depth pieces instead of quick news stories that just really
frustrates me. I really enjoy getting involved with people and talking to them
and finding out, you know what’s their
favourite colour, why do they do what they do and things like that, ya.
04:45 (Jeanne) So, if, if, I understand you correctly, it’s not so
much news journalism but more in-depth exploratory journalism that interests
you?
04:53 (Nadia) Ya, and um, strange enough, I’d never really thought of
practicing that kind of journalism in my community but after doing sort of the
JDD course last year and you know and working in, um, I was working in, uh,
Scottsfarm, so it’s a predominantly coloured community as well and very similar
to like my kind of community and then I could see all these stories popping up.
But it’s just very weird, how you’d never think of using your community as a
subject, as a, as a form but I was like you know, now I think about it and I
was like, there’s so many stories, that I can cover. And it’s great cause you
know all these people but then you know it can also come with a lot of
complexities and stuff… ya
05:28 (Jeanne) Um, wh, I want to talk to you a little bit more about
your experience of the department and, and teaching here. But before we get
into that, get to that, can you maybe think back a little bit to the time when
you first decided to go to University? What motivated you to come to
University, I suppose firstly and secondly, to come to Rhodes?
05:45 (Nadia) *Laughs* my grampa, *laughs* um, my grampa is a
principle, teacher and everything so education is quite high on his list and I
mean he taught me to read and um, I think it was just always expected of me
that I would go to University because I have sort of been the uh, shining star
in my family, academically…
05:58 (Jeanne) Where do you, you fit into the family? In terms of
first child, second child, where?
06:03 (Nadia) Well, um, my parents are divorced so I was the only
child between the two of them, and then so I am the eldest. Um, so, um, I’m
sort of setting the path, so lots of expectations and that kind of thing, but
then I kind of, it’s it’s a very interesting relationship because I’ll put my
dad and my mom sort of back in their place cause my mum got remarried and so
did my dad…
06:19 (Jeanne) And they had, more children after that I assume… Is
that how it works?
06:22 (Nadia) Yes… it’s two, my dad has two boys and my mom has a son
and daughter. Um, and it’s just interesting like they, treat me as an equal
which is really great. So I can say to my dad, don’t you know, put too many
expectations on my brother, because if he doesn’t want to go to University,
it’s ok, because University is, um is for a certain kind of person. Not saying,
necessarily saying we’re better, but it’s just um, it’s a different kind of
thinking and that kind of thing. But my grampa was very much the main one who,
expects me to go to University. I wanted
to as well, but the plan was to study medicine and then um, I hated physics and
maths so I decided no, this is not good for me, and I thought well, I really
like people, and I cant see myself sitting in an office all day um…Cause they
wanted me to do accounting as second choice and then I decided Journalism. My
family weren’t too happy about that decision but they supported me.
07:09 (Jeanne) What did they say to you? Why weren’t they happy?
07:11 (Nadia) Um, I think you know, cause, again, in my community you
want someone who’s gonna come out of the community having studies something um,
you know it, it’s all the big names, like lawyer, doctor, and my gran had said,
well if you don’t do medicine, why don’t you do pharmacy? And I was like, I
don’t wanna be stuck behind a counter. I want to go out and see people and you
know get involved. Um, but then once they see, now they see how far I’ve got,
and you know and what I’m doing and they’re all very proud. And my friend was
coming to Rhodes and so I decided that well, if I’m going to do thin I’m going
to try and go to the best place in the country and I’d heard really good
stories about Rhodes and I thought well, well, ya.
07:49 (Jeanne) And why radio journalism?
07:50 (Nadia) Um, initially it was writing, it’s just all these things
have changed along the way, it it it was writing initially, um, and then I did
the second year course with radio and I just thought, actually, I’ve always
loved radio, I had never thought of doing that I was like, it’s just you know,
it’s just the dj’s and that kind of thing and, and there’s so many more aspects
to it and then I thought well, you know let’s give it a go. And I think my
family were shocked again *laughs* but, um, Ya, they they were supportive once
again. Once they started hearing what I was started producing they were quite
happy about it.
08:21 (Jeanne) And when you, say that you love radio, what is it that
you love about radio?
08:24 (Nadia) Um, I love that it’s um, and I mention on my, my my wix,
my blog as well that it’s um, not as invasive as TV or you know you, you’re
able to capture a lot, you’re able to play around with the sound. Whereas I
feel with writing, um, it’s just um, I mean writing is less invasive than radio
but, then and TV it’s less invasive than um, that kind of journalism. An um,
you’re, you’re able to maintain eye contact with the person and talk to them
and um, they get used to it and it’s just you know, it’s a very, it’s just a
close bond (Jeanne: intimate) ya, and I really enjoy that and I’m all about
communication and intimacy so ya.
09:02 (Jeanne) Um, just to take things forward. So you came to Rhodes,
um, and when, even beyond the journalism department, you were obviously part of
a whole undergraduate programme. Tell me a little bit about that, what were
your majors and what were some of the ideas that they introduced to you, what
were some of the debates?
09:20 (Nadia) Um, well, my other major was history, it was supposed to
be English *laughs* um, but um I changed to history because I enjoyed being
able to choose my courses- history is very free that way and um, I took you
know health journalism, um, I mean health disease and society course and it was
fascinating! You know, challenging perceptions of what we view as, you know,
why are doctors better than a sangoma for example and how can the two
integrate? And I just though well that’s so great that will help me so much
with journalism. Trying to breach you know, and bring together different ideas
and worlds. And again I did, uh, a course on India and Indian history, and I
just felt like coming from the community that I’m from, there’s always been
this negative perception of other race groups
and stuff and I just felt like I didn’t know a
lot about India and so learning about that and actually knowing, you know they
were quite a high-tech society and thinkers and it was just so great knowing
all that and being like, I’m challenging my perceptions and I just thought
well, that applies so nicely in here. Now we’re doing Orientalism and we were
doing that with our course, this year as well so it just all links up and it’s
so great.
10:28 (Jeanne) So, um the kind of things you mentioning relate to I
suppose, um, how one makes sense of different communities, different
traditions, different social experiences, how people are different from each
other, then maybe the oxidental oriental, is one way in which that works.
10:48 (Nadia) Ya, and, like, because in my community, um, you know
because I think because we’re all like coloured people in one group and then
you have these perceptions about other people. And I hate it when coming to
Rhodes, you know, the first thing people say to me is, oh you’re not a real
coloured, you cant talk like one. And that just *grrrrr* just grates me
because, um, I’d like to think that I do challenge your perception of what a
coloured person would be like. So, I’d like to think that my work will do the
same, and having all this background knowledge helps me do that so, um, quite
keen to see what happens. And you know in the future with all of that, and
having been here at Rhodes, and I don’t think, um, I find my friend who is at
Wits, she just doesn’t have the same outlook as I feel like I’ve picked up from
Rhodes and, she’s, she’s, we’re in the same year, she’s just graduated but um,
somehow, a lot of her thinking is still very much how we were when we left
Eshowe. So it’s ya.
11:44 (Jeanne) So you’d say that your undergraduate education changed
you as a person?
11:47 (Nadia) Most definitely. And I mean the biggest example is
cutting my hair. Cause I come from a community where you have to straighten
your hair and it has to be long and my gran would always fight me on that one.
And the big decision was deciding to cut it into an afro, and I did a course
about afros last year and it, it’s a symbol of pride, and and I just said to my
gran, I’m just so tired of you know, why should we use relaxer and why should
it be straight and you know like, so it’s it’s this constant battle, with,
especially with my gran, my grampa I think more accepting. Um, if I sit down
and I talk to him and I say, well this is why, and he’ll be like “ok”, and
think about it. But my gran is very old school, and you know, she only went up
to grade nine in education, so, very, very it’s it’s very difficult sometimes
getting through to her. My mum is just like, ok, *laughs* we’ll do this, so ya
*laughs*…
12:30 (Jeanne) And then, um, what about inside the school of
journalism and media studies? What what if you think back from now, from first
year to now, in fourth year, what jumps out at you as as, id, ideas that really
made an impact on you in the course work?
12:43 (Nadia) I think for me, third year was one of the highlights,
um, because uh, definitely the JDD course, um, I know sort of the theory side
wasn’t as interesting as getting out into the community and doing things, but
it was so great to see um, but I cant think of names but the theory related so
well to what we were doing and just to see that journalism doesn’t have to
be um, I mean with Danika, we did objectivity
and Glasser, and that for me has always stuck with me. In that um, why should
we be objective? And you know, you lose you’re your citizenship, you lose being
a citizen small things like that, and um…
13:18 (Jeanne) Just take that a bit more slowly… you say uh, you lose
your citizenship when you are objective? For this, just explain that?
13:23 (Nadia) Um, I think what he said was that, um, your lose your
ability to comment and have a social responsibility when you decide to take an
objective stance. And by doing that, um, you just, you lose any, uh, any form
of communication and any form of you know responsibility to people, you become
an outsider. You’re just a social commentator. And that really hit home, and I
was just like, uh, I don’t wanna do that! You know, I actually want to get
involved so I was really happy with development pieces and the JDD course where
we could actually get involved. And not parachute journalism and you know just
saying, this side that side, little bit of commentary and out.
14:03 (Jeanne) So that links back to your comments about um, in-depth
journalism that, that, immerses you within communities, rather than just a news
bulletin item?
14:13 (Nadia) Ya, and I’d like to think that one day, you know, news
items on SABC and etv and all these places will include these kinds of
journalism that um… to change the views of people because I left, I came here
thinking that objective news was the right way. My grampa would always say, you
know Nadia, you need to always be objective. And now we were talking about that
the other, this holiday, and he you know, it’s nice to see that he’s like “oh,
well that, that’s interesting, you know I didn’t think of it that way, so it’s
nice to, challenge these. AndI suppose challenge people as well in the process.
14:45 (Jeanne) Um, you say you don’t, you can really think of specific
names of theorists, that you were exposed to. But maybe lets, lets talk about
concepts. You’ve mentioned the objectivity thing but, um, wha, what, and you
also mentioned development journalism, what would be other concepts, ideas,
debates that stand out for you from those readings that you did last year in
the third year course?
15:03 (Nadia) Um, well, um, I think it was possibly in second year as
well, it was Harry Dugmore did the uh, course and he spoke about
‘professionalism’ and um, that for me was also another one I think and it, you
know popped up again when we did objectivity and the two are so closely linked.
And when you know, what is this idea of being professional, you know, who, says
we should be professional and why you know? And you never really, you know
you’re just like, to be a proper journo you need to be professional, and so
that, that was pretty good and I know I’ve referenced that, those reading that
he had given us from second year, in my last years work. And I constantly refer
to them, and even just re-read them, which is terrible, *laughs* but just
re-read them just to see you know, how that relates to what I’m doing now and
just remind myself of where I’m going why I’m doing what I’m doing. To
constantly question what I do.
15:48 (Jeanne) Ok, so if you were to summarise, from all of that, from
all of these ideas that you’ve been exposed to um, all the different ways in
which you’ve changed, how would you say that has shaped your understanding of,
journalism as a form of knowledge about society and what I mean by that in
particular is, what kind of journalism has would you say has credibility?
16:10 (Jeanne) um… I think, currently, what might have the most
credibility and what’s needed a lot is development journalism. I think, I’m
really, quite the advocate for it. But I do think that and um, getting in
participation with people. I think those two work really well with people, to
give people, a sense of empowerment and to know that we’re not in there and as
media practitioners and we’re not going in there to um hound you for a story
and to bring your world crumbling down. We’re there to also get the stories of
things that are good, because news shouldn’t always be bad, um, it should also
try and help you as a community develop your own community. And that’s what I
learnt last year is that we don’t have to constantly go in there and want to
change things we need people to want to change their own situations. Um and to
not always like, gimme gimme, but to also learn and to um, do things on their
own. And sometimes it’s hard but it’s, it’s not an easy process.
17:06 (Jeanne) What what role, what role do you think Journalism can
play in, in facilitating something like that, that sort of empowerment that
you’re talking about?
17:13 (Nadia) I think, what’s good with um, Journalism is that it
highlights the issues and it says um, you know it could place importance on
issues and make people more aware. Um, because without, you know people can
just generally talk about it but you can have maybe like an outside coming in
and saying well, maybe yes you’re right, maybe this is actually a problem. Like
let’s tackle it and what ideas do you have and how can we deal with it?
17:34 (Jeanne) Ok, um, let’s get a bit more specific, um, and talk
about radio production. So you’ve been, doing radio since second year, um, and
what has been your experience of putting these ideas that you’ve spoken about
into practice through your production of radio in both the second and third
year assignments that you’ve been a part of… I’m assuming that some of these
ideas that you’ve spoken about you’ve tried to put into practice, in your own
work. What, tell me about that and how successful you’ve been in doing that?
18:04 (Nadia) Um, can I give you an example of a piece I had… (Jeanne-
please…) I had a story, ‘Meals on Wheels’ last year with um, uh this lady
Michelle Sparrow she’s the organiser and she works with Meals on Wheels in
Grahamstown. And working with them was really great in that um, here’s a
situation where people um, senior citizens are struggling, pension is just not
covering things and um , they’re taking into their own hands you know. And so
they get donations as well, but um, you have senior citizens going out and
helping other senior citizens. Which was, I thought was so great! I was like,
ah that’s wonderful! You have a 60 year old going to help a 70 year old it’s
lovely *laughs*. Um and just going with them and um, saying, yes, this situation
is an important one and people should know that it’s a problem, that you know,
a lady out in the middle you know, in the township actually can’t support
herself and her children don’t care for her. And how can we as a community get
more involved, so I tried to not show them as
victims but as changing their own social situations. But, um, just needing that
extra help, more, um be it, you know, um, more donations, or help in the
kitchen or, um, driving around, you know, those small things. So ya…
19:18 (Jeanne) So what I’m hearing you saying is that um, that the
kind of stories you’ve looked for are stories about agency, about people who
are making a difference to their own communities. And simply by being there
with your recorder and recording these stories, and sharing them, in a public
sphere, you’re making some kind of a difference by supporting those people?
19:37 (Nadia) Ya, and I mean it came out again when we had to do our
soundslides at the end of the year where we, we followed a librarian and It was
so great to see that she organizes um people to come to her library and get
schools involved and she goes out of her way and you know um, and how she gets
her children interacting with literacy with English and Afrikaans, um, so
putting her on a platform, and you know, we, showed this to the community, and
they were like, oh well we know that person and oh she’s actually doing that
and we could maybe do that with our kids. And I showed my mom that, cause my
sister is five this year, so my mum was like, oh I didn’t think of that! So you
know it’s really nice to see like another mother with her child and what she’s
doing and she’s doing it well, and you know not the best but she’s doing what
she can and you know people see that and go for it. And so you know, you just
highlighted that and um, hopefully helped and gave her recognition and ya, I
think people want that sometimes as well.
20:28 (Jeanne) So what I’m also hearing is, is not just about that
story that you told but it’s also about what happens afterwards with the story,
the kind of conversations that take place around that story, which is maybe
some… why you end up taking a story back into the community and talking about
it?
20:44 (Nadia) Yes, um, I think maybe one of the flaws that we didn’t
do, is that maybe we should have conducted a focus group or something
afterwards just to say, did this work, um, how well did it work, did you enjoy
it, how can you carry on doing this. Um, but the people were so happy to see
themselves on newspapers and um, in their own communities, so it was like
seeing a familiar face, hearing a familiar voice on radio, seeing them in
picture, um, and that for them and so it was nice to see that something had
happened after our journalism. It wasn’t, it didn’t just stop there, and that
was it. It continued so people are now practicing her ways of teaching her
child. So that was really nice…
21:20 (Jeanne) Um, if if you thing about the fourth year course when,
and what you know about the fourth year radio course now, where do you see
opportunities for you to take further some of your own ideas about radio
journalism? And the role that it will play in society?
21:33 (Nadia) Um, I’d like to think, especially with my documentary,
I’ve you know, been toying around with a few ideas and stuff and I’d like to
think that, that can you know, I can like, not forget uh, what I did last year
and what I hope, who I hope to become as a journalist and stuff and use that in
my journalism. Um and I’d like to think that people you know continue um,
thinking about these ideas and recycling them and talking about them because I
think once um, you stop talking then, you know um, hope is lost. Um and it’s
not for the government or the municipality to only change things. You know you
as a person, need to take a stand and just do something. So I’d like to think
that our journalism encourages that kind of thing. And I think this year will
be a good platform to do that.
22:16 (Jeanne) But, if you think, you’ve mentioned the documentary, in
particular, why does that stand out for you? What, what is it about
documentaries that lends itself to the kind of journalism that you want to do?
22:25 (Nadia) Um, I think it’s just spending time with um, people getting
to know them longer, showing them that um, you’re really interested in what
they have to say. And then you know, having something to produce and then
having something to show for it at the end. Um, compared to you know, 30second
clip for a news piece. Um so I think with a documentary, people will feel more
involved and you know, getting them more involved in the process and showing
them that you know, you have, as much to learn as much as they do from me. So
I’d like to think that that’s where it links and comes together.
22:58 (Jeanne) But, that almost sounds more, in the way you describe
it, is closer to the other project that you being asked to do in the community
partnership. I mean how do you feel about that part?
23:07 (Nadia) Um, quite excited but ya nervous as well because you
don’t want to, I think because you, I think when it comes to deadlines, I think
that’s always a problem, a big problem with journalism, deadlines and stuff and
you’re pushing people and uh, you need things on time and then they might lose
interest and that kind of thing, but um, you want it to youknow the flow to
keep going, and that the respect, the input to come from both sides. So I’m
hoping that it’s constant and it’s you know more, you know it meets our
expectations much more…
23:38 (Jeanne) So I suppose, the um, the community partnerships
project is a little bit more intimidating because you’re going to have to
depend on other people? And there are complex logistics involved whereas the
radio, documentary is very much your project and you can decide how to do it?
23:52 (Nadia) I think you can choose the people you want to talk to,
whereas with the community projects, it’s sort of it’s set out who you need to
talk to and um, it’s a bit more of a challenge as you don’t know what you’re
gonna get… ya I suppose you don’t really know what you’re gonna get. But with
the documentary you kind of sat down and said, I’m doing this and I plan to do
this and speak to this person and that comes together that way. So, so it’s
still very much your guidance, but with the community one it’s just kinda like,
it’s a team already made and you’re just getting slotted in *laughs*
24:22 (Jeanne) Um, what, areas can you identify that you still feel
that you need to grow in terms of your theoretical and intellectual
understanding of you know, what it means to be a critical journalist?
24:35 (Nadia) I think, um…to constantly keep challenging ourselves and
in terms of um, like I’ll always go back to it, to being professional and
objective and um, all the different theories that we’re, that we learnt in the
JDD course, um, I think those are the kinds of things that especially with this
year, we need to constantly go back to and in future and just find out where
are we going wrong, how can we better ourselves and to not lose sight of those
goals.
25:08 (Jeanne) And then finally, um, by the end of this year, what
would you like to achieve in terms of deepening and strengthening your approach
to the practice of audio journalism?
25:17 (Nadia) I’d like to think that my technical ability will be
great, um but, um, I think that just learning the skills of dealing with um,
you know team work, individual people, um individuals, um and working with a
variety of people, um not limiting myself, uh because I know, you know when you
get really busy you tend to want to focus on people that you would get on
better with so, an English speaking person for example. Um, instead of taking
the extra time to speak to a Xhosa person, who is limited in English but is
till, you know, um, because, you know they, everyone has something important to
say and only deciding to focus on an English speaking group of people would
totally cut down your sources, and other content that you’ll produce so I think
you know, by the end of the year, I’d really like to try have a little bit
better, be a bit better with my Xhosa *laughs* and um, just to not forget that
um, to deal with all kinds of people, and to be culturally aware and to
remember diversity and you know that kind of thing.
26:18 (Jeanne) Thank you Nadia….
